
I was standing outside this morning and my son was playing with his transformer toys in the yard. As I stood there, dazed still from having just woken up, one of my neighbors walked up to me, all smiles and shiny cheeks. I said good morning in my polite but reserved way and she said good morning back but it was obvious she had meandered over to me with a purpose and I waited patently for that purpose to be revealed. The conversation we had was a bit shocking, but also a bit satisfying.
Neighbor Lady: How's it going?This is when I began to get uncomfortable. Tomorrow is Sunday. Sunday morning. She wants to take my son to a 'thing' on Sunday morning. I must have paused for a little too long or was wearing my concern plainly on my face because my neighbor continued -
Me: Oh, OK. I work nights so I'm just getting myself up now.
NL: Well it's nice that your son lets you sleep in.
M: Yeah, he's a good boy, I am lucky.
NL: I wanted to ask you about him, we're going to this thing tomorrow and I wanted to know if he could come?
M: Oh yeah, what kind of thing? What time? He's going to hang out with his grandmother sometime tomorrow so it might not work out.
NL: It's in the morning.
NL: It's a church thing, but the kids don't really do a lot of the church stuff they just play. I thought he might like it.It was at this point that I took a long pause. I told the neighbor, a very nice lady who I honestly feel wasn't trying to be insulting and who has genuine concerns regarding god, judgment, and hell, that I needed a minute to think about things. She seemed to misinterpret my pause as if I were considering for even a moment allowing my son to go with her but that was fine as she patiently waited while I considered my response.
M: Well what kind of church thing is it?
NL: Well, it's church. We go to a really nice church down the street and I have heard you and your boyfriend talking about being atheists, but I figure your son might still want to see what it's all about.
M: My 6 year old son?
NL: Well, yeah.
M: You're asking to take my 6 year old kid to a church, knowing that I'm an atheist?
NL: Well, I know you rejected god, but that doesn't mean your boy has to grow up without knowing all his options, right? I'm not trying to offend you...
M: You have the little blond girl, right? The nice girl my son plays with?This was the end of the conversation. I don't know if the interaction offended the woman or not, but it shouldn't have. I remember being a kid and being present during similar conversations between my parents and friends and neighbors of theirs. When I was in 5th grade my parents decided I was old enough to go to church with people if I wanted to and I remember going to a Carman concert with some neighbors of mine and feeling like I had stepped into the twilight zone.
NL: Yeah, she's my daughter and she LOVES the church we go to.
M: I want you to consider something and I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to prove a point. Were I to come up to you and ask you if I could take your daughter with me and my son to an activity where all of the people there besides your daughter would be atheists 'just to give her another perspective', would you be comfortable with that?
NL: (immediately blurts out) Well of course not!
M: Well then you completely understand why I would rather not have my son go to church with you tomorrow. And for the record, I would never suggest that myself - not for my son or your daughter. Our kids are 6 - I feel like they need to figure out for themselves what they believe and right now, they're still taking in all the possible explanations.
NL: Well, if you want your son to make up his own mind, why would you be opposed to him coming to church with us and checking it out?
M: For one, I think he's too young. More important than that, he's not the one who asked me if he could go to church, you are. He's not yet interested in your faith and I'm not going to push the exposure on him. When he's ready, he'll look into it and if you guys are still living next to us, I'll let him know then that you'll be happy to take him to church with you.
The religious practice of 'get 'em while they're young' seems unsavory to me because it takes the minds of people just as willing to accept the existence of Santa Clause or Optimus Prime on faith as anything else, and produces for them a creator god who they are to take on faith is real as well. Then, they take away Santa and Optimus as fanciful, childish things, yet they maintain that god is the real deal? How can you willingly do that to a kid and not consider than you might be messing them up?
Aspentroll · 815 weeks ago
You want your kids to get both sides of the picture, not just the xtian side.
I was never pushed into religion and feel I'm better off for it. I have read the horror stories of those who have deconverted from Xtianity and they are not pretty. Most people are scarred for life and have difficulty coping after leaving the "bubble of xtianity".
KristenMP · 815 weeks ago
But I feel a tad bit bad for you. That was not the neighbor's way to go of almost trying to force your child to go to Church. If she were to have done the same with me, I would have told her to take a hike. But that's me being nice, because otherwise I would have said "Shove it." xD lol
Veritas · 815 weeks ago
Tom · 815 weeks ago
Personally, I would have begun my response with "Why do you feel the need to be deceptive? Why didn't you mention church until I pressed you for details, and then only reluctantly?"
Joel · 815 weeks ago
Plittle 28p · 815 weeks ago
Jake Kerr · 815 weeks ago
My daughter is 7, and assuming I trust my neighbor not to physically hurt my child I don't think I would have a problem with it. E have instilled her with 7 Years of unconditional love and independent/critical thinking that I don't think a couple hours of strangers talking about God would lead to anything more than an interesting discussion when she got home. Not sure I would feel the same way about my five year old but I think even she would be more curious than brainwashed by two hours in a church setting.
I do think your response was way off base. I would have contrasted my way of thinking with her "we would never let our kids hang with Atheists" rather than use it to confirm your own decision. I would hope that as my kids grow older they can be exposed to religious gatherings and then come home to discuss them. I would be horrified to think that I would need to not expose my kids to a belief simply because I disagree with it.
WayBeyondSoccerMom · 815 weeks ago
BTW, I highly recommend "Camp Quest" for your child when he is older. My kids have attended three Camp Quests over the past four years, and they have loved every one of their three weeks, total, there. We have driven over 14 hours to get them there, and it was worth every mile, just in the confidence instilled in our children and the awareness they gained, knowing they were not alone being raised by atheists. Camp Quest is a great way for kids to spend a week with their peers.
You can read a great overview of Camp Quest Smoky Mountains at:
http://www.rationalists.org/news.php?id=000000044...
Again, thanks for taking the time to share your story.
Richard Wade · 815 weeks ago
Also, watch out for cagey statements like "NL: It's a church thing, but the kids don't really do a lot of the church stuff they just play. I thought he might like it."
"The kids don't really do a lot of the church stuff" leaves plenty of room for the kids doing some of the church stuff. Hypocrites talk like lawyers, equivocating with little details in their statements. Their words are technically not lies, but their intention is to deceive.
Lying for Jesus is in the long run a self-defeating strategy.
Camels With Hammers · 815 weeks ago
wetspots · 815 weeks ago
It's just possible (though unlikely) that your neighbour is very enthusiastic about her liberal church. Were I in your shoes I might be more inclined to do some brief research into the particular church your neighbour goes to - much in the way you might want to check up on a movie your neighbour is taking the kids to see.
Mr Poo · 815 weeks ago
/me pauses to draw squiggles across his chest with his hand, whilst whispering 'May his pasta protect you'.
You just didn't want your neighbour to discover that you'd already indoctrinated your child with the holy scripture of the divine meatballs.
Guest · 815 weeks ago
My clearly atheist teenage kids are older, and I have had no problem with them going to church with friends and family. My daughter even volunteers at a vacation bible school these past few summers. Usually she comes back humming "dum dum dum dum dum" ala south park.
I'd rather they were more literate about the worlds religions, as make believe activities go it is no worse than watching fictional stories on TV.
Reginald Selkirk · 815 weeks ago
What a preposterous question. It should "May I take your son to church?"
Xauri'EL · 815 weeks ago
"Well, I know you rejected god, but that doesn’t mean your boy has to grow up without knowing all his options, right? I’m not trying to offend you…"
"Amazing how you can do such a great job without even trying."
bakiwop · 815 weeks ago
Peter · 815 weeks ago
A_J · 815 weeks ago
Mojoey 107p · 815 weeks ago
Ork · 815 weeks ago
bob · 815 weeks ago
Dawshoss · 815 weeks ago
Hypersapien · 815 weeks ago
Guest · 815 weeks ago
AtheistMission 16p · 815 weeks ago