8.29.2009

The Fight That Religion Has Picked

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I just realized a mistake I have been making in my thinking and I get very excited when I have such realizations because I feel like the day I stop have realizations is the day i should mark on my tombstone as date of death, regardless of how long my body lives. I have bought into the religious fallacy of, in part, regarding science as if it is in diametrical opposition to religion. It is true that science and religion sometimes address similar subjects, but this does not lend credibility that one is the antithesis of the other.

The only issues which science deals with are natural ones. Some religious people dislike the scientific data that gets released about certain topics. One of the most hot button scientific theories out there is evolution, but evolution is only a controversial issue because religious people say it destroys belief in god. Religious people say this. Scientists say that they've observed X and Y and because of verifiable experimentation and empirical data, accept that X is Y because of A, B, and C. Scientists may personally wonder if these results might indicate something about god or a creator, but the foundation of the creator myth is in faith, not logic. The scientific application of evolution in regard to god is impossible because you cannot legitimately apply science to supernatural concepts.

Besides these few scientific theories and findings, science has very little to do with religion but it seems religion can't stop trying to interject itself into science. Evidently, in part, to weaken the 'Evil Secular Hypnotic Hold' as some have said of science on the youth of America.

This is why I find christian pseudoscience so puzzling. Why would any religious person want to try to scientifically prove any part of something whose most basic pillar is faith - an entirely non-scientific concept? Faith in the biblical sense is believing in something regardless of logic or evidence. Religious people seem desperate to prove that all people live their lives according to faith, making claims like 'you don't know what might happen if you cross the street - you have faith that you'll be OK even though it's been proven in some cases that crossing the street (and getting hit by a car) is fatal. This application of faith in the biblical sense doesn't apply, however, because before crossing the street, you look both ways in order to gather evidence as to the presence of cars which might make crossing the street at that point potentially fatal. People don't fly in planes because they have faith that the planes won't crash. Most people are aware of the statistical improbabilities of a plane crash and are willing to take the risk. Religious faith may be established with information which seems similar to that of plane crash statistics or evidence gathered when crossing the street in the form of personal or anecdotal information, but these things are not scientifically sound. It is irrational for someone to believe that cats steal the souls of sleeping children even if a large group of people tell them it is true.

The motivations of the religious community may be understandable - in very simple and constrained terms - fear, comfort, faith, etc., but to me it seems like religion has not only picked a fight with science, but now that scientifically trained people are defending themselves against this behavior, religious people are now trying to take up that familiar position of the persecuted.

There is no honesty in acting bullied and wounded when someone defends themselves against a fight that you started.

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Congrats on the wake up call. You're right -- once you stop hearing the wake up calls or alarms, it's all over.
There is no honesty in acting bullied and wounded when someone defends themselves against a fight that you started.I had been wondering what had been bothering me about the brush fires and forest fires I keep seeing as I spend more time surfing the web ... er, expanding my horizons. I think you've hit the head of the psycho-sociological nail.

I think there is a population among the fundies, for example, who aren't being completely honest about their intentions and will do anything to further their agenda. In many more cases, however, I think the problem is that a fairy tale was packaged up without sufficient thought to the implications of actually selling that package or buying (into) it. Once the fairy tale is examined even a little bit, though, it becomes clear that pretending to believe the fairy tale leads to all kinds of other rejections of reality. When some of our more scientific brethren have pointed this out, the wars began.

For example, saying that radiometric dating methods are inaccurate leads to the conclusion (eventually) that atomic theory is wrong. Similar rejections of the foundations of chemistry, geology, biology, physics, astrophysics, medicine, zoology, etc., grow out of insisting upon the "truths" of the fairy tales.

Yes, the "bullied" have brought this upon themselves. Their insistence on fairy tales has finally led to the emergence of the Unquiet Atheists (I prefer this to "New Atheists") who have the gall to defend an incredibly widely tested range of theories. I think this has fallen to the atheists (as point persons) because it is ultimately about religion -- and atheists generally know more about religion than most people (including the "religious".) When the atheists are also scientists and intellectuals (like the Four Horsemen, PZ Myers, etc.), they have both the intellectual tools needed and the passion to save the field of inquiry they love.

Since most religions have persecution somewhere in their institutional history, reverting to a known survival tactic makes sense (after all, they're still around so it must have worked back then.)

But I think we are at the beginning of a different kind of battle -- one where religion is neither winner nor loser (what they're used to) but irrelevant.
I believe when ones faith, in what one hopes for, becomes “evidence” of the truth of what one believes; it becomes a sad state of the denial of actual reality. The essence of faith, on its face is absurd. I’m not going to go into a long rant; however, hoping something is real, which one cannot see, is NOT evidence of anything! I came to understand at a young age, that faith=only delusion.

One can not manifest a higher-power, or a god, out of one’s own thoughts (thoughts are just that, thoughts). One must create an altered reality, in accepting something as totally absurd, as the stories written in the bible.

The other side of the coin; (though there are many sides) I don’t believe most Christian can even discern the difference between what they have been taught is real, and what is actually real. Case in point, our good friend Apo1; In that “debate,” after claiming he was a black Christian, who then claimed he was not “superstitious one bit” (that argument was quickly laid to waste, as was all of his others).

See, they want to reinvent the wheel, consciences, and reason; and they want all the rest of us, to follow them right back into the dark ages.

When I was younger, and much more tolerant, and I believed, everyone had the right to believe whatever they wanted, as long as they didn’t try to force their beliefs on me or my family I was fine. But after seeing what these ignorant, hateful people are capably of firsthand. I’m becoming less, and less tolerant of this kind of ignorance.

Excellent Post!

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